The best subs

[Greg160]

Hey guys.Whats up?I was wondering what subs you guys think are the best in terms of loudness and quality.Like what types of subs would you go for if your building a system with 4subs in a ported box.

[pgarner]

for loudness look towards SPL rated subs spl is sound pressure level,
for sound quality go for SQ rated.
TN will be able to advise better as he likes his bass

[2fast2catch]

currently running a jbl set up in the scoob, (only cos got it mega cheap) sound is quite good but bearing in mind its an impreza wagon there is not alot to deaden sound.

normally go for fusion or vibe

aye Turbonutter is defo one for bass

[turbonutter69]

What car will it be going in? Four subs in box will be very large. You don't need four, two will be sufficient.

[turbonutter69]

Oh and what price range are we talking here?

[Greg160]

Im not concerned about the price that much,just looking for something in the top range.If im goin to buy ICE setup,i want to do it once.I dont want to keep on buying new components.It will be goin in a 2door car.I plan on taking out the back seat and building some sort of a speaker wall.Im thinking of some 15"components.I will get the Maxximus 10K watt amp to feed them,ANd what power supply should I have for the setup.

[turbonutter69]

Don't go for 15inch subs go for 12's.
Alpine do some cracking Spl subs. My advise to you would be go to your local car audio dealer and tell them your plans and they will be able to sort out the best kit for you. I will say this though with audio equipment you will always be adding to it as once you are satisfied with the sound you'll always want to improve on it. Car audio is all about trial and error. With a 10k watt amp you will need some serious power to drive the amp. I'd suggest Optima battery upgrade and maybe more than 1 of them. Also your will be looking at some expensive power caps too.
What is the overall aim?

[Greg160]

what is wromg wih 15s.everyone here has 12s.I would want to go for something different.My aim is to buld a system to blow away the competition.Are power caps really needed.I read on some site(Cant remember which one.It was some time ago)that the power caps just function like a battery,drawing power from the battery and then feeding it to the amp.Their expensive for nothing.I was thinking of the battery and so along with the regular batter for the car,i will put in 2deep cycle batteries of good quality in the back to run the amps.what do you think?

[HDi fun]

Batteries are capacitors so using them is fine. It's the quality of supply current wiring that counts.

In the confines of a car, which is a small space then 12" drivers would work equally as well as 15" drivers. Low frequencies are non-directonal, especially in such a small space and off-axis rolloff and diffraction is not a problem as the wavelengths concerned are MUCH MUCH longer than 15".

If your sub is only dealing with low end stuff (say 80Hz and down) with a 6dB/octave - second order - low pass filter then one driver is sufficient.

The best way to drive a sub bass system is to get the X-over process completed at line level and then employ a separate power amplifier to operate each bass driver. You can also use a similar high pass filter to prevent low frequenices being delivered to the other mid/high speakers. This will prevent phase coupling and cancellation effects. This will help to even out peaks and troughs in the frequency response, resulting in the punchier, deeper, and more tuneful bass.

Lest we forget, bass in not about boom and bang, it's the magic of hearing the start, end, and pitch of each bass note.

[turbonutter69]

What Hdi said is true. A 12 inch sub will sound better than a 15 inch. 15's don't drop to the low notes like a 12 does. Just like a 10 inch will drop better than a 12. If your are going for a serious install then a Power Cap Is a Must. Regarless of you installing separate batteries a Power Cap is a must. A car battery simply cannot draw enough power for the amps and that is the job for the power cap.

[HDi fun]

A suitable battery mounted close to the power amplifier will deliver current equally well as a reservoir capacitor. The important thing is proximity to the amps and quality of supply wiring. This applies just the same if you elect to use electrolytic capacitors. Don't get too carried away with the charge capacity in farads. What you're looking for is transient current delivery. Overload an electrolytic cap and it can physically burst.

[turbonutter69]

For a serious top end install power caps are a must. Have a look at one of pioneer or vibes demo cars they have extra batteries but still require power caps.

[HDi fun]

Originally Posted by turbonutter69

For a serious top end install power caps are a must. Have a look at one of pioneer or vibes demo cars they have extra batteries but still require power caps.

I must admit I can see the benefits of having both. The capacitors to deal with sudden and loads and the local battery (batteries) to back it up in the event of low voltage conditions (ie. stationary car, all the other electrics flat out, a/c and more).

Caps perhaps have an unusual use in this repsect. Treble response. Although the signal levels are smaller than at the low end they rise very fast. They also fall and invert very fast so having a chunk of electricity stored away in a cap could really help this. Perhaps this is why my over powered home hifi uses enormous power supply capacitors on the DC side? It's not as if the national grid is short of juice on tap.

[turbonutter69]

The reason extra batteries are installed is to take load off the alternator and the cars original battery. Even at a short distance to the amps a battery itself cannot deliver enough power as and when the amp needs it. Power caps give that surge of power as and when needed which is why they are a must for a serious install. If the amps where running just door speakers then the cap wouldn't be required. It's required when an amp is running one or more subs as car batteries cannot deliver enough juice for the really low notes which is why you get dimming of the lights when the bass hits hard.

[turbonutter69]

Originally Posted by Greg160

what is wromg wih 15s.everyone here has 12s.I would want to go for something different.My aim is to buld a system to blow away the competition.Are power caps really needed.I read on some site(Cant remember which one.It was some time ago)that the power caps just function like a battery,drawing power from the battery and then feeding it to the amp.Their expensive for nothing.I was thinking of the battery and so along with the regular batter for the car,i will put in 2deep cycle batteries of good quality in the back to run the amps.what do you think?

Is there any progress with the install buddy?
Something i've not said that I should is if your going for a serious install then make sure you buy plenty of Dynamat.

[Greg160]

Sorry to sound silly,but what is dynamat?I guess i will go for the 12s then.could you recommed any good subs for the 10k watt maxximus amp and also a good power cap to match.Also is a X-over necessary if the amp already has a built in X-over?What gauge wire should i use for the power connections and for the sub?

[turbonutter69]

Originally Posted by Greg160

Sorry to sound silly,but what is dynamat?I guess i will go for the 12s then.could you recommed any good subs for the 10k watt maxximus amp and also a good power cap to match.Also is a X-over necessary if the amp already has a built in X-over?What gauge wire should i use for the power connections and for the sub?

Dynamat is sound deadning for your car. It also stops alot of rattles too due to the high levels of bass.
For the subs I'd be inclined to look towards Alpine or Pioneer for their competition grade products.
Here is a decent power cap that will give you room for expansion if you wish.
http://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/prod...00_p-20427.htm
If the amp has a built in crossover then you don't need one. But try and look for an amp that has a remote bass adjuster.
Go for 0 Awg cabling.

[Greg160]

Alright then i will go for the 12s.which ones would you recomend for the 10k watt amp.Also what power cap would be good for the 10k watt amp.do i need like a 50 farad cap?The sound shops here do not have the equipment here so i have to do my research and import the best components myself.I have had 2subs before and have heard4subs running on an amp of leser power than mine and the sound was fantastic,so im going to stick with4subs.Is a X-over necessary if the amp has a built in X-over ?

[HDi fun]

There's no way any automotive amplifier will deliver 10kW RMS continuous rated power into an inductive load. Be cautious of such claims.

10kW is enormous - I used to to play in a couple of quality covers bands and the biggest PA rig we ever played through was about 3kW RMS either side of the stage at The Electric Ballroom, Camden, N London.

This was delivered by no less than 5 rack mounted monoblock power amps either side of the stage, with active crossovers at line level (2Vpp).

See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power for a very good explanation.

[turbonutter69]

Originally Posted by Greg160

Alright then i will go for the 12s.which ones would you recomend for the 10k watt amp.Also what power cap would be good for the 10k watt amp.do i need like a 50 farad cap?The sound shops here do not have the equipment here so i have to do my research and import the best components myself.I have had 2subs before and have heard4subs running on an amp of leser power than mine and the sound was fantastic,so im going to stick with4subs.Is a X-over necessary if the amp has a built in X-over ?

See my previous post.
Your amp is no way 10k RMS as Hdi has mentioned. It's more like 3-4k at the most.
You will need to look towards competition subs. I would look towards Pioneer or Alpine. If the amp has a crossover which it will have then you won't need a seperate one. You'd only need a crossover if you are splitting the signal from the amp. Ie to a component speaker. But as you want just bass from it then the built in crossover will be sufficient.

[HDi fun]

It's probably about 2 x 300-400 watts RMS at continuous load to be honest. But across the whole 20Hz-20kHz which is widely accepted as being the audible range that's still more than enough.

A good amp will still have transient headroom of perhaps 20dB, which would equate to the 3000-4000 PMPO watts you've mentioned. Supply quality is paramount, thick wires and capacitors all help this. Strangely, it's not just the low end that benefits from capacitors. Additional batteries placed close the the power amps will help as well. The HF end will benefit too as the rise and decay times are short and will help to alleviate the LF sucking current from the rest of the audio range.

Built in X-overs are sufficient, and it's often better to EQ at line level anyway as the components don't need to handle huge amounts of current, hence less losses as heat.

If you're only driving subs with the powe amp then a second order LPF is fine. If you can also roll off the bass to the car's other speakers you will get a more linear bass response without phase cancellation or reinforcement accoustic effects.

[Greg160]

Thanks alot for all the help guys.I will go and look for the power caps and keep you updated on my progress

[pickuptrck]

I have a pair of Kenwood KFX-12R's. They're rated at 3,000w peak each, around 800w RMS and have performed flawlessly. I't stime for a new box b/c my DIY one has developed serious leaks from the pounding. I'm driving each of the 12R's with a Kenwood X-1R rated at 2,500w peak, 700w RMS. They cost $300USD & I couldn't be happier with them, but they are capable of 3 different amp setups & I'll say from experience, the instructions DO HAVE TO BE READ with them, or you'll think you've destroyed them at first hit.

[c130fxr]

You want some good subs here ya go....
http://reaudio.com/home.html

[323madness]

i think i need a power cap my headlights dim with the bass even while driving. 2 12" jl audio and a kenwood 1023.