Viewing: New member intro + a problem

**brianbaker** · 20-12-2009, 03:29 PM

Hi There, I am a new member who needs some help with a problem with my 1996 825si Rover. However a bit about myself first.
I am 65 and recently retired

from sales and owning a business in Cyprus.

I am ex RAF (1960-1977 ex Boy Entrant 39th Entry at Cosford). I was one of the many who were refused signing on in the late 70's so had to join ( very reluctantly

)the real world of civvie street.

I went into sales and worked for various compys mainly directly dealing with people and include in that 6 years as the Man from the Prudential???? and owning my own wine business. Ill health forced early retirement but whilst on a 2 week break in Cyprus I found that the concept of disabled scooter hire was unheard of so set up a company and stayed in Cyprus for 7 years. I try to stay active but a gammy back and a duff spleen can make this difficult.

I prefer to look after my own car rather than pay huge sums for generally very mediocre work from the motor trade.

I bought the 825 in 2006 but unhappily she has mainly sat on the drive and the brake system has corroded and so no MoT. I bought new discs and pads, calipers and flexible bits and started in the front left working round to the back left changing bits. ( By heck the parts had really rusted in to be almost unshiftable but lots of grunting,swearing and some Plusgas did the job)

The rear left pipes had corroded so needed replacing. Whilst stripping out the seats etc I found that the sound proofing was absolutely soaking and the fan had stopped working. Sripped these out and checked but the fan seems O.K.

The flooding continued so I had the windscreen resealed. Flooding still there. A trickle was found on the wiring loom from the front left door but not enough to account for 2 pints on the floor after rain at night so all that lot resealed. Still leaking

????

The real area of access seems to be from the ducting taking air to the rear seats so presumably the water is getting into the heating system ducting under the dashboard. The drain ducts in the w/screen bulkhead cleared but it still continues. The whole area is solid with no signes of rust at all.

I am baffled

and the car has only done 50,000miles and is in excellent condition apart from this damned leak and I don't really want to scrap it but it is blocking the drive and driving me to distraction. WHERE IS THE LEAK COMING FROM???????? Please please can anyone help me on this?????

Sorry to be such a pest but really this is driving me nuts
Brian baker

**pgarner** · 20-12-2009, 04:23 PM

hey and welcome to the site mate.

not sure on the leak but that does seem alot for one night.
are you losing coolant ? just an idea but im wondering it the water going to the heater matrix is leaking out, this might explain the amount of water and why its at the rear seats

***Loz*** · 20-12-2009, 08:01 PM

Welcome to the forum Brian

, does the air supply for the fan pass through the car body, you may find it could need resealing at that point. You could try pulling up the carpets around the problem area & running the car through the car wash if your lucky you might spot the culprit!

**turbonutter69** · 21-12-2009, 02:06 AM

Welcome buddy.

***waynne*** · 21-12-2009, 11:13 AM

Hello there and welcome to TorqueCars, I hope you enjoy your time on here

I guess the leak could be coming from a wheel arch if you drive through a puddle. I recommend getting a box of tissues and spreading these out on a dry day. Then apply a hosepipe to the car and see which ones get wet the first.

Ensure all rubber seals and clean and in good condition also.

**brianbaker** · 21-12-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgarner

hey and welcome to the site mate.

not sure on the leak but that does seem alot for one night.
are you losing coolant ? just an idea but im wondering it the water going to the heater matrix is leaking out, this might explain the amount of water and why its at the rear seats

Hi PQ and thanks for taking the time....
The water is totally clear and there is no shortage in the rad/header tank so presumeably not that??????

**brianbaker** · 21-12-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz

Welcome to the forum Brian

, does the air supply for the fan pass through the car body, you may find it could need resealing at that point. You could try pulling up the carpets around the problem area & running the car through the car wash if your lucky you might spot the culprit!

Hi and thanks for taking the time to help a soul in torment??????
The complete interior , seats as well , has been removed. I did find that the drain from the bulkhead was blocked with leaves etc so cleared that but still no joy.
My way of tracing an unexplained leak is to spead talcum powder in the area so if it is dripping from " mid air" it shows where it hits so go up and that usually is the area to check. No leakage there even with the blower removed?????
I am certain it is coming thru the heater system under the centre of the dash. It then travels along the ducting and emerges thru the vents under the seat meant to feed air to the rear of the car.
The amount of water depends on how much it has rained during the night. I checked this a.m and found approx 1/2 pint there
I have tried a hose pipe soak and NOTHING seems to get thru?
I have almost finished replacing calipers, pads, discs and flexi's at the cost of approx £500 and really want to keep this car BUT not if my passenger has to wear wellies........
Any way thanks for the suggestions. ( I am beginning to feel a right smart arse as I have had several helpful suggestions but I have already done that??????????)

**brianbaker** · 21-12-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbonutter69

Welcome buddy.

Thanks T.N 69 but music is the last of my worries at the moment......
Come to think of it though Handels Water Music or Raindrops Keep Falling on my feet would seem appropriate???
BB

**brianbaker** · 21-12-2009, 01:22 PM

**brianbaker** · 21-12-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynne

Hello there and welcome to TorqueCars, I hope you enjoy your time on here

I guess the leak could be coming from a wheel arch if you drive through a puddle. I recommend getting a box of tissues and spreading these out on a dry day. Then apply a hosepipe to the car and see which ones get wet the first.

Ensure all rubber seals and clean and in good condition also.

Hi Wayne, Thanks for the suggestion BUT the car is up on stands in the drive at the moment as I am doing a complete brake renewal so it can't be that.
Completely cleaned up yesterday and this a.m there is 1/2(?) pint of water in the passenger footwell. It lies along side the transmission hump and then spreads to the left. The foot rest wall has been coated with talc and no signs of leaks or drips there.
A piecs of towelling was place under the outlet under the front seat ( the complete interior has been removed) and this is wet so it MUST be coming from thos pipes which connect to the heater etc under the dash. The water is clean, no antifreeze, and the levels in the header tank and rad are stable...
I have been chasing this for 2 (?) months now and it is driving me mad////////////
Thanks for the suggestion though
BB

**brianbaker** · 21-12-2009, 01:43 PM

To all the members who took the time attempting to help a huge THANKYOU.

If anyone has any suggestions at all, however outlandish they might seem, I would like to hear from them.

I have spent approx £500 on buying a complete new braking system but if the pax have to wear wellies it just isn't on so she is heading for the scrap yard. Shame as it only has 50,000 on the clock AND I have just found a leather interior for her. BOOOHOOOOOOOO

Leather interior and complete unused braking system for sale??????
BB

**stamford** · 21-12-2009, 02:14 PM

Hello Brian

The water coming in you say is clean and clear, is the water in the coolant system the same or coloured as per anti-freeze?

Do you have a sunroof? If so could be the seal to the roof, drainage channels. It has been known for some roofs to leak and for the water to travel down the sides, then down the B pillars etc.

Have you checked all bulkhead grommits? If there are any that are perished or not in position with a large loom passing through then this is the point of entry, but for it to go to the rear area is unusual.

Be patient, process of elimination my friend.

**brianbaker** · 21-12-2009, 02:29 PM

Hi Stamford, The water is clear and the header tanks and rad are all stable levels.
Yes I have a sunroof BUT the water shows up along side the transmisiom hump on the pax side so that appears to be unlikely???
The grommets and screw fixings have been checked and injected with sealant before replacing them. The w/shield has been checked and resealed , just in case, by a pro w/shield replacement outfit. The "flash" across the bottom of the w/shield has been sealed off at it's top edge. The screws holding this on have had the cups sealed off as well.
The bulkhead drains have been cleared ( lots of trees by the drive) and work fine.
If the night is clear of rain then no water shows. I have sprayed water onto the w/shield for 10 mins or so and no evidence of leaks ?????????
Driving me MAD for the last 2 months.......
Thanks for taking the time though.
BB

**stamford** · 21-12-2009, 02:35 PM

I know how irritating these things can be, I've been there before and still am now as my Discovery leaks! But that is normal!

Considered capillary action for the cause? Instead of looking for ways down, look for ways coming up...............worth a punt. My old Firenza used to fill its rear footwells everytime it rained and also when the roads were wet. I found it was the rollcage footplates that were doing it. I resealed the plates and fixings and that cured it.

**xavier** · 21-12-2009, 02:53 PM

It's not from the airconditioning drain hose is it?

**brianbaker** · 21-12-2009, 02:57 PM

Hi Stamford, I hadn't considered that as the car is 2ft in the air on stands at the moment.( Actually it has been for nearly 2 months now....)

The water appears to enter some where around and into the air ducting around the heater matrix. The blower has been removed and that hole sealed and the accordian piping has also been removed. As far as I can see the matrix has NO connection to the outside of the car. Rad and header tank are stable and if there is no rain then no water collects. The air duct from the matrix feeds along the transmission hump and splits in 2 just in front of the gearshift where it continues along side the hump at floor level on either side of the hump. The right hand( drivers) side of the hump is DRY..... The water appears at the outlet which is located under the pax seat.
That all sounds very complicated and unless you have removed the interior it's probably difficult to visualise but it is the best description I can do I am afraid.
Any way , thanks for taking the time to post your suggestion..
BB

**pgarner** · 21-12-2009, 03:01 PM

might not be the best sounding idea but have you tried going backwards ? ie putting water back through the ducting ? to see where it comes out

**brianbaker** · 21-12-2009, 03:01 PM

Hi Xaever, It's a 1996 model and doesn't have A/Con but thanks for the interest taken.
BB

**brianbaker** · 21-12-2009, 03:14 PM

HI , No I hadn't thought of a reverse flush.
Actually I have just realised that all the investigations and checks have been confined to the left side of the car. Is it possible it is entering on the right and then making it's way to the left. ( Contrary to that , there is no way of diverting the flow of air to either side???)
BB

***waynne*** · 21-12-2009, 06:19 PM

If it is on a slope then that is very possible and likely. Do a marble on a tray test to see if it is on a slope.

**dpsubaru** · 22-12-2009, 07:18 AM

Hi Brian,

Could it be coming in through the boot and running down the passengers side of the car?

**brianbaker** · 22-12-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynne

If it is on a slope then that is very possible and likely. Do a marble on a tray test to see if it is on a slope.

Hi Wayne, I don't quite follow ? The car is on stands while I replace the rear brakes so yes it is on a slope. How does this influence the ingress of water thru the matrix/ heater system?. Surely if it were flat then the water instead of being concentrated in the front footwell would just be more evenly distributed over the whole of the left pax side? Whole problem is where the hell is the water coming from? No rain last night and no water this a.m........
BB